Episode 128: Chloethiel Woodard Smith
Chloethiel Woodard Smith, born on February 2, 1910, in Peoria, Illinois, was an influential architect whose career left a significant mark on American urban planning and architecture. Her father, Oliver, was a scholar, and her mother, Coy Blanche, a chemist-physicist. Chloethiel’s interest in architecture began at age 12 when her family built a new home. Despite her mother’s aspirations for her to attend a women’s college on the East Coast, she pursued her bachelor’s degree in architecture at the University of Oregon, graduating with high honors in 1932. She then earned a master’s degree from Washington University in St. Louis in 1933, where the Arts and Crafts Movement influenced the welcoming environment for women.
Chloethiel’s early career included working with Henry Wright in New York and contributing to the Housing Study Guild. In 1935, she moved to Washington, D.C., joining the Federal Housing Administration, where she developed housing policies during the national housing crisis. Her groundbreaking work earned her a Guggenheim Fellowship in 1944, leading to research on South American planning and publications in prominent architectural journals.
In 1949, she co-founded Keyes, Smith, Satterlee, and Lethbridge, which eventually became Chloethiel Woodard Smith & Associated Architects in 1963. Over the next two decades, her firm thrived, with projects like Capitol Park and Harbour Square in D.C.’s Southwest redevelopment. Notably, she preserved historic structures, integrating them with modern designs.
Her contributions extended beyond D.C., with projects like Lake Anne in Reston, Virginia, and Laclede Town in St. Louis, Missouri. In 1960, Chloethiel became the sixth woman named an AIA Fellow. She passed away on December 30, 1992, leaving a legacy of innovative urban planning and thoughtful design that blended history with modernity.
Caryatid: Melissa R Daniel
Melissa R. Daniel is a Facilities Project Manager in Maryland and is the creator/ host of the Architecture is Political (AIP) podcast, where Black and Brown folks discuss architecture. She received the 2022 AIA Whitney M Young Award and the 2018 American Institute of Architects (AIA) Associates Award. Melissa serves as past Chair for AIA Housing and Community Development Knowledge Community and as a Steering Committee Member to the DC Legacy Project, Barry Farm-Hillsdale. She is also the founder and host of the Architecture is Political podcast, “where Brown and Black folks have conversations about Architecture.”
Leading up to this season on government, politics, and municipal architecture, the SBP team thought a conversation with Ml would set the stage to the conversations coming up this season. Be sure to check out our charette to listen to our conversation that we had with her.
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This transcript was prepared during the development of the episode.
The final recorded episode may deviate slightly from the content presented below as changes, edits, or improvements may be made during the recording and editing process.
Jessica: Hello there, welcome back to another episode of She Builds Podcast, where we share stories about women in the design and construction field, one lady at a time.
Lizi: This season's theme is: “Government, Civic Work, and Urban Planning” . We are talking about ladies who were involved in public projects or services.
Norgerie: As always, we are not experts, we are just sharing stories about the information that we find, as friends having a fun conversation. If you find an error, send us an email and we will all continue learning.
Jessica: This week we will be talking about Chloethiel Woodard Smith, an architect and urban planner who left her stamp on mid-20th-century Washington, DC. I'm Jessica, packing up for an archventure to this week but currently based out of Miami, Florida.
Lizi: Hey girl Heyy, I’m Lizi Raar, getting ready for an archventure in San Francisco.
Norgerie: And I’m Norgerie Rivas getting back from an archventure in Ohio, but today I’m in Houston Texas.
Jessica: I am so excited for today’s episode. I originally thought I would tell her story during our hometown season, but then I decided to tell Ethel’s story. But I’m also excited because we briefly mentioned this woman in our discussion with Melissa from the Architecture is Political podcast.
Norgerie: So many breadcrumbs.
Lizi: Such a tease.
Jessica: But anywho, our story begins on February 2nd, 1910 in Peoria, Illinois. Chloethiel Woodard was born. Her father was Oliver a “scholar” and her mother was Coy Blanche - a chemist-physicist who taught at the University of Oregon Dental College.
Norgerie: Sounds like both her parents were in academia.
Lizi: Yeah and a casual chemist-physicist mom also. So did they move to Oregon for mom’s job?
Jessica: Yes! So even though she was born in Illinois - she grew up in Portland. Sources say that Chloethiel’s interest in architecture began at the age of 12 when her family was building their new home. Apparently, Chloethiel’s mother wanted her to attend a women’s college on the East Coast but Chloethiel was like nah, and went to the University of Oregon and got her bachelor of architecture degree with High Honors in 1932. Then in the following year, she would attend Washington University in St. Louis and get her Master’s Degree.
Norgerie: The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, she getting her academia on.
Lizi: Yeah no kidding.
Jessica: At this time, the Department of Architecture at Washington University was very much influenced by the Art and Crafts Movement, and the programs seemed to be very welcoming to women. Chlothiel was one of two women in her class of seven. - her odds were not that bad lol
Lizi: That’s true. As far as ratios go, that’s actually not terrible. But Arts and Crafts Movement is fun! This was an international trend that was at its height from 1880-1920. It was a movement that was trying to simplify the overly ornate styles of the 19th century, and is considered by some the gateway into modernism which would take over in the 1930s. There is also some debate as to how it relates to Art Nouveau and if they are completely distinct or if Arts and Crafts was the start of Art Nouveau. Anyway, sounds like Chlothiel was learning all about it in Missouri.
Jessica: Getting her master’s at Washington University would aid in her future career in urban planning and community building... Now it’s time for an exciting thesis name … Chloethiel’s master's thesis was called “ An Industrial Housing Community for the City of St. Louis, Missouri.”
Norgerie: This is actually not that bad. We've heard a lot worse.
Lizi: We really have. That one is short and to the point. I know what this thesis is about.
Jessica: After graduating Chloethiel moved to New York and began working at an architecture firm with the architect Henry Wright. On the side, Chloethiel would also volunteer at the Housing Study Guild.
Norgerie: The Housing Study Guild was founded in the summer of 1933 by Henry Wright, Lewis Mumford and Albert Mayer to be a center for study and research of the technical, economic and social problems of housing and community planning. Very interesting and important work.
Jessica: There she would become buddy buddies with Lewis Mumford - who we might remember from previous ladies - but he was also known for his philosophies on civil societies in the built environment.
Norgerie: I remember he's a famous person, but I often don't remember why. Good thing I just looked it up.
Lizi: Lol. My first reaction which I”m pretty sure is exactly how I reacted the first time we talked about him was ‘from Mumford and Sons’? Which obviously not, but every time that’s how I hear it. Anyway, we talked about Lewis on episode 24 Catherine Bauer.
Jessica: Yeah we kept referring to him as Mumford and sons - but not sure if he had sons and there was no “and” it was just him and his crew. Alright so Then homegirl moved to Washington DC in 1935 to work at the Federal Housing Administration, starting as a senior draftsman in the rental housing division. Then she would work as an Assistant Architectural Engineer, then an Associate Architect - then eventually she worked her way up to chief of research and planning in the Large-scale Scale Housing Division. At this time her work was really important because the country was dealing with a lot of housing shortages, so some of her work included developing housing standards and policies.
Lizi: Wow. That’s so cool. Really putting her urban planning studies to work.
Norgerie: Is this on the same timeline as Francis Perkins?
Jessica: somewhat - I think they probably crossed paths - maybe I can find some crossover. In 1939, she joined architect A. R. Class's office as a designer. I guess around this time, Chloethiel would meet a fella named Bromley K. Smith who worked at the state department. They would get married on April 5th, 1940.
Lizi: Love is in the air!
Norgerie: Cute! But wait, so she left her government job, and is working in the private sector now?
Jessica: She did leave her government job but I think it was partly to be a wife and mother because Cloethiel would have two children, Bromley Jr. and Susanne - with children and all Chloethiel and her husband would travel around the world - following her husband's work. They went all over! They first went to Montreal, Canada.
Norgerie: Ok, I'm not sure work from home was a thing in the 40s so now it's sounding like Chloethiel is taking a break from architecture and taking care of her family and her spy husband the spy.
Lizi: HAHA one hundred percent. She’s living her best life and giving cover to her spy husband.
Jessica: In Canada, Chloethiel designed an exhibit called “ City for Living” in collaboration with her hubby. It was an exhibit on the importance of urban planning, and to advocate the importance of better schools, parks, and amenities. It also talked about topics like Uncontrolled expansion, slum removal, and improved urban health.
Lizi: We take it back!
Norgerie: Oh this is so great, so my earlier theory is wrong, she's clearly working from anywhere, her work is international!
Lizi: Yes, taking her work on the road. Preaching the importance of urban planning.
Jessica: So Chloethiel and fam were in Canada for maybe like two or three years and then the familia would move to La Paz, Bolivia. There Chloethiel would teach architecture at the Universidad Mayor de San Andres for two years.
Norgerie: ooo this is episode 116 Teresa Gisbert’s alma mater. But she went there in 1946 so unless Cloethiel stays a few years they won't run into each other.
Lizi: Loving this world traveling career she’s getting.
Jessica: THEN in 1944 our girl was awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship to study the history of planning in South America. This would lead Chloethiel to publish three articles in the Architectural Forum and the Architect’s Yearbook.
Norgerie: That's so cool!!!
Lizi: Wow! Good for her!
Jessica: Ya’ll THEN this led to Cleothiel designing a Master Plan of Quito, Ecuador, in 1945. For the life of me I kept trying to find more info and I couldn’t. So I think she planned it but maybe it didn’t get built
Norgerie: Aww
Lizi: WHAT!? That’s still SO cool though that she was planning Quito! Sad that it maybe didn’t get built though.
Jessica: In 1946, Cloethiel and her family moved back to Washington DC. There she would work at the firm Berla and Abel, a firm known for modern architecture. Then 3 years later she would form the firm Keyes, Smith, Satterlee, and Lethbridge with a few of her colleagues.
Norgerie: Wow!
Lizi: Nice! I love that they went out on their own.
Jessica: So what happens next is a whirlwind - so the firm would split after a few years, then it would become Satterlee and Smith. But then in 1963, that firm dissolved, and it became just Cloethiel Woodard Smith & Associated Architects. And this firm would be poppin for the next 20 years after that.
Norgerie: I feel like this whole story has been a whirlwind.
Lizi: Totally. I can’t keep up with all the moves she’s making.
Jessica: I couldn’t recognize them, but DC listener,s if the names Arthur Cotton Moore, Hugh Newell Jackson, George Hartman, Warren Cox, Edward Marshall Hord, or Colden “Coke” Florance ring a bell, these were all future principals and architects that came out of Cloethiel’s firm. It’s said that in 1980, 30% of the architects in the DC area had worked for Cloethiel at some point.
Lizi: Woah!
Norgerie: Cloethiel the Kingmaker.
Lizi: No kidding.
Jessica: in 1952, Cloethiel would collaborate with Louis Justement to create a master plan for the redevelopment of Southwest DC. This project was a very visible development project. The master plan would be modified so that other architects would design their own parcels of land. Cloethiel would design Parcels I believe 1-4 which they called Capitol Parks.
Norgerie: I like that.
Lizi: Yes, that’s awesome. I feel like DC is already such a planned out city, that to come in afterwards and add to the design is really cool.
Jessica: Cloethiel was doing a lot and collaborating a lot with not only architects but landscape architects as well like with Landscape Architect Dan Kiley. They designed apartments and townhouses like the one I mentioned before Capitol Parks, which would win an AIA Award of Merit in 1963.
Norgerie: Are there pictures of this?
Jessica: although it won an award it was also seen as controversial. There was a “slum clearance” which also meant the destruction of several low-income communities that impacted several African American households.
Lizi: This is a sad reality of a lot of urban planning which we’ve talked about before. I would hope that now, solutions that don’t uproot people are being considered. I also think it’s hard because sometimes the intent behind these urban development projects are good, but sometimes the execution and reality of what it takes to make them isn’t as ideal.
Norgerie: Yeah we’ve definitely touched on this subject before, the more I learn about this the more I’m led to believe a lot of these decisions were very intentional. It was not a necessary evil, or an unintended consequence. It was, as we discussed on our Arch is Polly Charrette, very political. I’m glad we are able to see this now, and like Lizi said I hope there is something done about it in this day and age, that it's not so easy to displace people as it once was, but I don't know maybe it still is, I may be naive and optimistic about this.
Jessica: So, in the mid-60s, Smith worked on this residential project in Southwest Washington called Harbour Square Apartments and Townhouses. What’s cool is that she didn’t just bulldoze over history—she kept these historic Wheat Row townhouses and blended them into the new design. It’s like she brought together the best of both worlds: modern high-rise apartments alongside those charming old low-rise townhouses. Oh, and she even dreamed up this super ambitious idea for a mixed-use bridge over the Potomac, kind of like D.C.’s version of the Ponte Vecchio. Sadly, that never got built, but the vision was pretty bold for DC!
Lizi: Aww man! Very sad that it was never realized.
Norgerie: Ok we're gonna need to see pictures of this too.
Jessica: Of course photos will be in the show notes, but here is a sneak peak.
Norgerie: omg a model! Love me an architecture model, ok this place looks popping overlooking the water, it looks like it could be a vibrant community making place.
Lizi: YEAH! This is even more awesome than I originally thought. This is SUCH a bummer that it was never built!
Jessica: Chloethiel would design and develop other properties outside of DC like Laclede town in St Louis, Missouri, or the Chestnut Lodge Mental Hospital and Research Institute in Rockville, Maryland. Or the one that first caught my attention was Lake Anne in Reston Virginia. Now I don't live in Reston but I had a friend that did so when I lived in Virginia I visited Reston a lot and was familiar with the neighborhood.
Norgerie: So you were living in an archventure without even knowing it.
Jessica: Ugh she did so much. Okay so she did those residential developments but she also did single-family homes. She designed a metro station (I’m assuming in DC - but listeners if ya know come holla at us), I mentioned the mental hospital earlier and then there was a church, a school, a community center, THE US EMBASSY IN PARAGUAY.
Norgerie: Ok her portfolio is all over the place!
Lizi: Holy moly yeah it is! Embassy design is a whole other ballgame.
Jessica: There is a corner of office buildings in downtown Washington DC on Connecticut Ave and L street that Chloethiel designed - they call it Chloethiel’s corner now.
Lizi: That’s so CUTE!
Norgerie: There's a place with her name!! She lives on forever! archventureeeee.
Jessica: Chloethiel really did leave a huge mark on D.C. and the surrounding area in three big ways. First, she started a firm that became a breeding ground for a bunch of modern architects—kind of like a training hub for the next generation. THEN of course are her designs and urban planning stuff that she did in Southwest D.C. And third, she played a key role in saving the historic Pension Building, which eventually became the National Building Museum, one of the top spots in the U.S. to celebrate architecture and building arts. Which I didn’t even mention.
Norgerie: Ok have to add this to the list of Archventures immediately.
Lizi: Yeah no kidding. She really did so much.
Jessica: The Washington Post Architecture Critic Ben Forgey asked Cloethiel what building was her favorite … she said “ the next one”
Lizi: hahaha.
Norgerie: How clever.
Jessica: Another one of my favorite quotes is when Chloethiel is describing her design philosophy and the architect’s role here is a quote “Architects are the set designers in people’s lives, and until the lights go on and the play begins, we are the only people who have seen the whole and put the elements together. Seeing the buildings that shape people’s lives before they are there and seeing them well in my mind’s eye—that is the source of my work.”
Norgerie: WOW, from now on either talk to me about architecture this way or don't talk to me at all.
Lizi: HAHA. But seriously, I love how invested in architecture and urban planning she was and how she thought about projects as a cohesive entity almost.
Jessica: I also forgot to mention that in 1960 - Chloethiel became an AIA Fellow - just the 6th woman to do so.
Lizi: YEAH SHE DID!
Norgerie: How could she not! She did so much important work, I'm glad she was recognized for how she advanced the profession of architecture.
Jessica: So on December 30, 1992 - Chloethiel passed away from cancer she was at a hospital in Hampton, South Carolina.
Lizi: Wow. She was only 72, but she did SO much. And she left such a distinct mark on DC but she also took her work on a world tour! I am so amazed at how much she did all over the world. Thank you for sharing her story Jessica.
Jessica: Alright, now we have reached the second half of our episode the Caryatid, this is where we select a woman living today who is doing her thing, furthering the profession, and whose work continues to hold the profession up just like the caryatids or columns shaped like women found on greek style buildings.
Jessica: so without further adieu …. This week’s caryatid goes to Melissa R Daniel.
Whoo
Jessica: So if you didn’t catch our charrette earlier this year, here is her bio: Melissa R. Daniel is a Facilities Project Manager in Maryland and is the creator/ host of the Architecture is Political (AIP) podcast, where Black and Brown folks discuss architecture. She received the 2022 AIA Whitney M Young Award and the 2018 American Institute of Architects (AIA) Associates Award. Melissa serves as past Chair for AIA Housing and Community Development Knowledge Community and as a Steering Committee Member to the DC Legacy Project, Barry Farm-Hillsdale.
Norgerie: Oh my goodness, I’m remembering how impressive her accolades are and how refreshing it was meeting her and talking throughout our charrette. She is so interesting with such a diverse career path
Lizi: Totally agree! We had such a great time talking to her.
Norgerie: And her podcast! Don’t get me started on her podcast.
Jessica: Yes, we also know her because of her show, Architecture is Political Podcast - Which quote “is where Brown and Black folks have conversations about Architecture.”
Norgerie: I like how she describes that, in her opinion, any space where Black and Brown folks are navigating is inherently political, and while depending on your life experiences,you may or may not agree with her on that. I like that she makes it ok to share her ideas but also disagrees with her, how she welcomes the discussion. I personally think there are few things these days that are not political.
Lizi: So true. I also love how she creates that space to discuss these topics and doesn’t apologize for it.
Jessica: Yes, I admire her honest conversations. I agree—I think politics can infiltrate many things in so many ways, and I like how on Melissa’s show, she talks about how these things can be political or have political influences.
Norgerie: Yeah
Jessica: I really enjoyed our conversation with her, funny enough, so while we were talking to her, she mentioned Chloethiel! Cloethiel had designed the building that Melissa lived in. From an urban planning perspective, how that affected Melissa growing up into who she became today was interesting to hear. Prior to this, when I thought about our season I knew that I wanted to have the charette with her.
Lizi: That’s right! I remember her mentioning that in our conversation. It totally tracks that she would be the caryatid for this episode then!
Norgerie: Yeah! I can’t think of a more fitting caryatid! Thank you for inviting her to a charrette Jessica!
Jessica: You’re welcome, it was a great conversation.
Norgerie: OK awesome caryatid, now let's visit the agora! The agora is a bonus segment of our show where we share news small or big. Congratulations to Kendel Pinto on her recent wedding! We’re very excited for her as she begins this new chapter of her life!
Lizi: Yay Kendel!!! Congrats on your wedding.
Jessica: oh congrats Kendel!
Jessica: Before we say goodbye we want to say thank you to CMYK for the music, John W our technical advisor. And most of all thank you for listening!
Lizi: Remember to check out our show notes for links to all of our resources on this episode as well as pictures of projects we’ve talked about.
Norgerie: We hope you enjoyed learning about today’s lady and caryatid along with our banter, and that you are inspired to find out more about them and other amazing professional ladies. Again, thank you.
jessica: She Builds Podcast is a member of the Gābl Media podcast network. Gābl Media is curated thought leadership for an audience dedicated to building a better world. Listen and subscribe to all the shows at gablmedia.com. That’s G A B L media.com.
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Jessica: We are excited to hear from you and for you to come back and keep learning about bosses with us. You can email us your thoughts at shebuildspodcast@gmail.com, leave a comment on our website shebuildspodcast.com, or follow us on instagram and facebook @shebuildspodcast, and on X @shebuildspod. See ya!
References
Chloethiel Woodard Smith | Commission of Fine Arts. www.cfa.gov/about-cfa/who-we-are/chloethiel-woodard-smith
“Chloethiel Woodard Smith 1932.” School of Architecture & Environment, archenvironment.uoregon.edu/chloethiel-woodard-smith-1932
Guggenheim Fellowships: Supporting Artists, Scholars, and Scientists. www.gf.org/fellows/chloethiel-woodard-smith/
Pioneering Women of American Architecture. pioneeringwomen.bwaf.org/chloethiel-woodard-smith/
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